How do you get things around the world quickly and safely? Answer: Have a good team!

In this video

How do you get things around the world quickly and safely? Answer: Have a good team!

- [Chris] On this episode of C Level I talk with Brian Oxley and Enrique Alvarez of Vector Global Logistics. So tell me a little bit about you guys and your business.

- So, my name is Enrique Alvarez. I'm originally from Mexico city. I came to the US in 2004 to study B-School. I went to Wharton, Philadelphia. Graduated in 06, and then came down to Atlanta to work for the Boston Consulting Group. That's where I met Brian. We were both doing consulting for almost three years, where we wanted to start something on our own. We thought about different projects and different potential ventures, and we looked into logistics, and for us, logistics was a very interesting industry.

- So why logistics? What interests you the most?

- Well, after conducting a couple of weeks of due diligence, and just interviewing some people, and really getting to know the industry well, after a project that we did for a company down in Mexico, we realized that the industry was very fragmented. There's a lot of mom-and-pop shops out there. There's a lot of large international companies that are doing logistics, but even those big players are not, uh-- don't account for a lot of the market share in the industry. So it was very fragmented. The other thing that we found is that the economy wasn't very good. It was really a lot of companies going under, unfortunately. So, time-wise, we thought that that could be an opportunity. And, I guess I'll take a step back, and I'll just tell you a bit more about what our company is, and what kind of industry we're participating in. I mean, we're an NVOCC, which is a Non-Vessel Operating Common Carrier which is a logistics company, an international logistics company, and what that basically means is we have contracts with a lot of different suppliers, a lot of different contracts and contacts with agents around the world, and we're shipping ocean containers for our clients. So, someone calls us and tells us that they need to ship 10 containers from Savannah, Georgia, to Nigeria, Lagos, and we not only coordinate loading the container, making sure the container gets there on time, making sure that it's loaded in the two hours that we have, but then also making sure the container returns to the port, goes to the other end of the world, and then we do the same thing at the other end of the world with our agents.

- I can't imagine how difficult it is. I mean, I can't even plan a company party with my office, let alone, like, shipping something across the world, so--

- When we got into it we found-- in looking at different opportunities beyond logistics, we found that logistics was a good opportunity for us because, as Enrique started to mention earlier, it was, you know, very fragmented, a lot of smaller companies, it was kinda like the Wild West where people were moving freight, doing whatever they wanted to do, but their mindset, what we found in the industry, is just people don't-- people did it okay. They didn't do it well. They didn't communicate to the customer and be proactive, and the freight companies would try and price gouge the clients where they would try and charge an exorbitant margin. They were trying to maximize their margin on each and every shipment, versus thinking about the long-term value of the client. And, for us, when we got into the industry that was our approach, right? And coming from our roots of BCG, it was all about thinking about the long-term value of the client. And, so we don't wanna ship with that company for this shipment, or the next shipment, we wanna ship with them for the next-

- [Chris] Long term.

- -10 or 20 years, you know, and as such you know, I think that since we started in 2009 we've lost all of one client and that was due to an acquisition, that they had-- The acquiring company had a pre-existing relationship with another forwarder, which is understandable. But, for us it's all about driving value and making sure that we exceed the expectations of the client.

- [Enrique Alvarez] The other thing that we found out at that point is just the culture and mentality of doing things in this industry like most companies are set up. So, they would be working from 9am to 5pm, you have one-hour lunch and for us diving into this industry and having clients all over the world, literally China, Germany, Brazil-

- [Chris] Time differences.

- -Chile. Nine to five Atlanta time didn't mean anything to anyone, right? So we came up with a new culture based on results and results only, which basically just means that you're taking the time and the space component out of the equation and you're starting to measure people by performance and some key indicators. So, if you're in operations, we want you to make sure that the clients are happy and everything's running smoothly, and you're invoicing on time, and you're keeping track of your shipments and all that, and we're a 100% focused on just making sure that our team does that. And we forget about where they are in the world, or 'What time do they come to the office.'

- [Brian Oxley] But, yeah. And so if you get rid of that time component and focus on results, uh, and you know that I think this is where, and I'm going into my background; Enrique grew up in Mexico City, I grew up in a similar-size town of Ogallala, Nebraska.

- Yeah, very similar.

- Population of 5,000 people. 20 million.

- But, for me, you know, born and raised in Nebraksa, we went to the University there, studied Biology and Biochemistry-

- [Chris] Okay

- Worked for a Bio-Tech start-up while I was there; knew I wanted to get a grad degree but wasn't sure if I wanted to get a Ph.D in Science or go and get my Masters in Business but I didn't have enough information to assess the latter so I went and took a job with Accenture, worked there for a few years, found out that business is where I wanted to be, and then I ended up going to Kellogg and then joined BCG down in Atlanta after I graduated in '04 but knowing that going into the BCG-- loved the work that I was doing, I had planned on being there for two years and then leaving and either starting a company or buying a company; liked what I was doing. So we ended up sticking around for close to four but, for us moving into the logistics industry, it's-- yeah, we definitely take a different perspective than kind of the normal company or the normal individuals that happen to be working in the industry, and so--

- So, tell me with everything going on in logistics, what are some of the issues that you can potentially run into?

- It's a lot of nine to five. It's a lot of not being proactive. If there's an issue, the typical answer is, "Well, if there's a customs hold, it's Customs; "they do what they wanna do. "The US government takes care of whatever they wanna do." And, for us, it's pick up the phone, right? Call if you have a situation. Present a business case to the officer that has to go through the customs hold, and usually they're pretty good people, and they'll be able to get us to have them help us out, as long as it's a rational argument. But, yeah, so doing that, just being proactive, and then again removing the time frame or the time component. What we had learned through consulting at BCG and Accenture, it's all about delivering results. And, so if you remove that time component, I don't care how much you work, where you work, when you work, et cetera, it all comes down to making sure you're delivering results for the client, and that's what kinda rings true with our client base.

- It makes a really dynamic culture to work in, and I'm really happy and everyone seems to be enjoying the kind of culture that we have. Because, of course, it's very flexible when it comes to respecting people's time and, to give you a couple examples, like, one of the operations managers that used to work with us wanted to take guitar lessons Tuesdays and Thursdays in the mornings, and she did that and no one really cared. Another person that worked with us loves soccer almost as much as I do, and this person went down to Brazil. I had to convince some of his clients that he was not in the US, and they wouldn't believe me. I had to send some pictures of him partying in- -Recife.

- In the stadium.

- But, I'm like, "No, I'm telling you he's not here," but at the end of the day, and at the end of the day, technology allows you to do that these days, and so we're focusing on results, we're providing value, and just one thing that's also different from other companies out there, as Brian was mentioning, is just not focusing on the Point-A-to-Point-B cost of shipping. To give you a good example of this, that hopefully will be practical, is we were working for a log manufacturer-- a log company down in Mexico, that cut logs in Vera Cruz, Mexico, which is the gulf part of Mexico, and they were shipping all those logs to Houston, Texas. And, so I always had the contact with the client, and the client is basically telling me, "Hey, as long as you offer me a good freight "from Vera Cruz to Houston, "you'll continue having our business." And, we kind of went month-to-month just making sure that we gave him a competitive rate from point A to point B, but I was always asking him, "Well, what do you do with this? "How else do you manage your logs, what else do you do?" And he was like, "Don't worry Enrique, "as long as you give me a good freight "from Vera Cruz to Houston, we'll keep working together." I'm like, I'm not too worried about this, but I really want to understand because that's kinda like when we can create more value. And so, long story short, I went down to Houston, bumped into his boss who happened to be the owner. I started talking to him, and they had like a big warehouse with some huge shredding machines that basically put the logs on one end and then mulch came out the other. And, I asked him where his market was, and he said, "In California." So, I'm like, "Well, if 80% of your market's in California, "you're basically just manufacturing air, "because mulch is basically air, "and then trucking it to California. "Would it be possible to get a warehouse in California "and start shipping the logs through the other coast "of Mexico, moving the machines to California, "and then basically just manufacturing the mulch "in California?" And, again, the owner at the beginning was like, "Oh, can we do that?" I'm like, "Yeah, let me put a business plan in for this." We did it; we saved him like $2 million a year. I increased my ocean rates, for sure, but they weren't really worried about that at that point. And, that's what we see over and over. I think that supply chain is very complex. We have to take all the different pieces into consideration. It's not only, "Give me a cheap rate from Shanghai to Savannah."

- [Chris] Right.

- That's part of it, and we can provide --

- Would you say that that's part of your success is that? Is that you're-- you're really helping the client to everything, even putting a business plan together for them and executing.

- I think our success has been around us putting ourselves in our clients' shoes, right? And, always doing what's best for the client, right? Because everything that we do, whenever we work with our clients, we're an extension of their brand. And, you wanna make sure that you're making the right decisions, right? And so, whether it's, if a client that had a product launch with Walmart, and their factory in Asia was well-behind on their production, and so they had to air freight probably $1 million worth of product, and which the freight was astronomical, and so as opposed to any other freight forwarder would have said, "This is gonna be great. "We'll air freight a lot of this stuff." It's, you know, they'll make a really good margin, but for us it was, "All right how can we do this cheaper?" And, so we ended up working closely with our client, working closely with Walmart, basically air freighting one-sixth of what we needed to do, and then sent the rest from Asia to LA, transloaded it, put it with a team of drivers to get it to the DCs, and we ended up saving them a couple hundred thousand dollars, where anybody else in the industry would have been salivating over-

- Right.

- [Brian Oxley] -trying to maximize the margin.

- Just to have the deal, yeah.

- [Brian Oxley] So, for us it's all about focusing on doing what's best for the client, and doing what you would do if you were sitting there in their shoes and that's driven a lot from kind of us being in that consulting realm, and taking a different approach.

- And just being-- just trying to build those long-term relationships, right? Because those relationships are based in trust and so we're not here to ship the next container or the next three containers. We're really here to build the long-term relationship with the people we work with, and I think that has been really key to our success. Just being true to ourselves, to our values, to what we believe in, and then really applying it to what we do everyday, and making sure that our team and everyone that kind of surrounds us has that same mentality, and that same mindset when it comes to delivering results, putting the clients first, making sure that we're adding value. And, the other thing that we're all very passionate about that's also critical to our company is just giving back.

- Right.

- [Enrique Alvarez] So, that kind of making a better world and changing the world is very important to us and every time we ship a container here in the US, we donate meals to people down in Kenya.

- [Chris] That's awesome.

- And, every time we open an office and we have offices now in the US, and two in Mexico and two in Chile, we talk to our team, and they kind of select a cause that they're supportive about and then they basically build our business and relationships around that. So, we have a very big component when it comes to working with not-for-profits. We love working with companies that are interesting and really trying to give back and making a positive impact in the world. And then also supporting different causes in Mexico. We work with Canica, and they are an organization that deals-- helps families and kids with cancer. And, in Chile we help with Coanil which is another good organization that helps kids with special needs.

- Do you guys ever fly out and go out to some of these locations and stuff like that?

- [Together] Yeah, yeah.

- As we opened the offices, I had the opportunity to go and fly and travel to Santiago a couple of times this year, to Iquique where the other office in Chile is and where the school is. And, uh, yeah, we go visit the kids and the schools and it's-

- [Chris] It's great

- [Brian Oxley] Yeah

- -very inspirational, it's really humbling, and it's really what drives-- continues to press-

- Right, yeah

- -us forward

- Yeah, and I think it's, for us- I mean it's good for the-- I mean it's good for everyone in the world, right? But it's also good for employees because it-- We treat our company, you know, all of our employees as family members-

- [Chris] Yeah

- -versus employees, right?

- I say the same thing, yeah.

- And so, you know, it's doing fun stuff, like you know, going and-- I think we have a fundraiser tomorrow-

- Yeah

- -we're going to work with-

- Yeah, we're going with Medshare.

- -Medshare.

- Medshare is a really interesting organization here in Atlanta, that I can put you in touch with because that could be a really good interview as well but--

- But yeah, so it's that or, you know, whether we'd like to do more things where it's more actively being involved in terms of volunteering and also, you know, donating but, I mean I think we've donated over half a million dollars to Habitat for Humanity in products and stuff like that to help them build their facilities and so-- or their houses.

- And we have donated 600-- 700 thousand meals so far. Our goal was one million so we're short of that but we're trying to push hard--

- That's right.

- So.

- That's fantastic. So, you guys manage a lot of employees. What is it like to manage employees when you come from consulting, then building businesses and stuff but then let's talk a little bit about management.

- I think so. I think our culture helps us a lot.

- Mm-hmm

- We have a very unique results-based culture which puts a little more of the pressure of managing people to the managers because you have to-- communication is key.

- [Chris] Yes.

- You have to make sure the expectations are aligned and that the goals are very well understood and everyone's very, very in line with what we're trying to do on a quarterly basis when it's mastered on a yearly basis. And then the other thing that's really helping us out a lot is the way we're structuring our workload. We don't like the asylum mentality that other companies have so we don't have, like, the director for exports and imports and operations and sales. We believe that that kind of costs us some internal friction and then just makes the whole organization a little bit less efficient and effective. So we basically have a model that has smaller teams so Vector is comprised of 10 smaller teams working as independently as you can possibly work. As long as they're following our culture and our processes and our service standards and our values, they can really do whatever they want. So that has helped us manage people, but it's been a lot of fun-

- Yeah.

- -uh, I would say.

- I mean, what for us you know, given the structure of the company and the culture we were looking for a lot of self-starters, a lot of people that have that motivation to go get things done and it's not for everyone, right? Some people want to show up at eight and leave at five.

- Right.

- And if you're that type of person, that's great, but it just doesn't fit well in our company because we've hired people in the past where they've bought in to this work-only results environment mentality and they will come in and show up and-- but they won't produce results and they think, "Well this is great, I can work from anywhere in the world-"

- [Chris] Yeah.

- -but then the results aren't there, so obviously they don't last very long. But for the people that do understand that you kind of meld, you know, everything else you mold your life around work, but if you can meld those two together then typically you have happier employees. So for us it's, you know, with our employees we'll hire somebody and then they'll literally within the first few months, they'll say, "Well, can you interview my sister? "Can you interview my friend?" And they want family members and close friends to come work at our company just because it's so different from what they've been experiencing.

- And a lot of that is like in the creative industry so in the movie business-

- [Enrique Alvarez] Right

- -you know, we work crazy hours like, sometimes like, you know, eighteen hour days, right? So, it's kinda hard, you know, to put somebody that's just used to that whole nine-to-five into something like that.

- [Brian Oxley] Absolutely.

- And so the fact that, you know, you're able to find those people and, generally, I think, you know-- when people-- I can do my work-- You know, I always say, I was like, you know, you're spending more time in the workplace than you are with your own family.

- [Brian Oxley] Right.

- You can do your work, you know, like you mentioned. Like, you know, you're giving time for people to, you know, go get your guitar lessons, go do these things, like, your work is part of your life, you know, it's like it's part of, you know, your life style and, you know, if you're able to kind of fit in your life and do work-

- [Brian Oxley] Yeah.

- -I think it-- overall it makes happier people.

- [Brian Oxley] Absolutely.

- You know, better employees.

- [Brian] I mean we are--

- [Enrique Alvarez] Yeah, we don't believe in the-- we don't believe in work-life balance.

- Yeah.

- [Enrique Alvarez] We believe that that's-

- Yup. It's different for everybody.

- [Enrique Alvarez] -not doable. It's dumb and it's not really something we're like-- Well, you're the same individual regardless of whether you're at work or at home or with your family or with your friends, so we believe more in like, let's just get things done and, yes, if there's something, an emergency, or it's family-related or whatever, we totally understand it. I mean, all our families come first, too, so why pretend that we have work, or this, and then you have people-- I think it incentivizes the wrong things because you have people out there kind of just taking sick days, and thinking-

- -calling in saying, "oh, I'm sick today." Well, just tell me you want to go and watch a movie.

- Exactly.

- [Enrique Alvarez] You don't have to-- We don't care-

- [Brian Oxley] Transparency

- [Enrique Alvarez] -right, so-

- [Brian Oxley] Transparency and honesty.

- Yeah.

- [Enrique Alvarez] -but I think the way that some companies are structured are just promoting bad habits.

- Yeah, I mean we had a-- you know, for us we don't have a sick day policy.

- Nope.

- We don't have vacation day policy. And so we had one of our employees who was getting married and they were traveling a lot to, you know, Upstate New York was-- which was where they were getting married and she was fine, planning everything out. Her husband, who had another job, was, you know-- would run out of days, and he's like, "Well, do I call in sick?"

- [Chris] Right.

- "What-- How do I do to make this work out?" And it's just-- you know, if you're planning on working with somebody and then-- or if you have some employees that you've working for you and they call in sick randomly or whatever, you're like, "It's fine," but if it's intentional, then it doesn't make sense and it just disrupts the actual-

- [Chris] Right.

- -business itself, so--

- [Chris] Yeah, and again, it all comes down to the whole honesty. I mean, if you're sick or, God forbid, you're in the hospital, I want to know, like, are you gonna-- I'm gonna be--

- [Enrique Alvarez] We would all be there with you.

- [Chris] - I'm going to show up.

- [Brian Oxley] Yeah. Right.

- We'll be there with you, sending flowers or whatever we can do to help comfort you

- [Brian Oxley] Right.

- Like take care of your-- you know-

- [Brian Oxley] Right.

- -whatever-

- [Brian Oxley] Absolutely.

- -you know, mow your lawn, you know. What do you need? You know? It's like-- and I think, you know, that. It's the transparency and understanding, you know, the type of work culture that you have. It is great.

- [Enrique Alvarez] I think that's our main competitor advantage, to be honest, and that's the team we have is an amazing team, it's encouraging and it's really fun to work with them. You're really-

- [Chris] Yes.

- -empowered to work harder and make sure that you're part of the team and make sure you care more just because people have shown us such amazing disposition and attitude towards working under this culture; that it's really, really fun and uplifting and we definitely-- everything we have-- the large success we've had or everything we've accomplished is really because of our team.

- [Chris] Right.

- They are really the best.

- [Chris] Yeah. The company is-- obviously it's not one individual, you know-- I mean-

- [Brian Oxley] Yeah.

- -as a company means people and having a rock-solid team-

- [Brian Oxley] Yeah.

- -is a comfort.

- When you have no assets, you have to rely on human capital, right?

- [Chris] Yeah, exactly.

- [Enrique Alvarez] That's right.

- And if you don't have good people working for you-

- [Chris] Yup.

- -then it all kind of-

- [Enrique] That's all you have.

- -falls apart.

- That and I think, and this place is awesome, like when I originally was coming in, this was not what I was expecting. I was thinking like, man, this is gonna be like-- you know, the styrofoam-- you know the drop ceilings with the lights that are buzzing, it's like-- This is awesome.

- [Brian Oxley] When we started the company we looked around for office space and we had a real estate broker helping us out and he kept pushing us down at the airport. That's where all the people that are in the industry work. It's all down by the airport and for us, well, we both lived in midtown and we didn't want to commute, but we wanted a place where people enjoyed coming to.

- [Chris] Yeah.

- And we found that here at King Plow.

- Especially because they don't have to come, so, uh-

- Yeah, right.

- -the few days that you want to come to the office we at least wanted it to be convenient and-

- Yeah, and you're not sitting in a cubicle-

- -and this is a place-

- -and stuff like that and it's just-- it-- it's great.

- King Plow is a great community, too, like there's tons of really interesting companies-

- [Chris] Yes.

- -as you probably saw by walking around, and it's-- this area in town, it's also booming. So it's been really cool so far.

- [Brian Oxley] Yeah.

- So tell me-- so you guys are entrepreneurs, right, so you have the logistics company. Tell me about this new project that you have that's kind of like almost like an incubator-type deal.

- Sure. So, this project came about last year. We were looking for space where we could move our offices because we had been renting at King Plow for about 10 years and wanted to have something on our own. So we saw that there was a place opening which is now Vector, the offices you were in before. And so we acquired that unit, and then while doing that and while kind of like getting comps from all the other neighbors and people that I know personally, we found out that there was like an opportunity to buy two other units; this one is 108, and 104. So we said, "What can we do that's complemental that's also entrepreneurial, and that can also help the community?" So we partnered with Joaquin for Sandia and we launched this place. It's called Sandia, which is watermelon in Spanish. That's probably why you see some of the pictures-

- Yeah, yeah.

- [Brian Oxley] -and some of the coloring and things like that. We believe that all these little seeds come together, working hard to create that amazing fruit that's very inclusive and fresh and international, if you will. It was a good name for it. But what we're trying to do is basically bringing interesting and smart entrepreneurs, small companies, people that are trying to tackle some of the problems that we have in the world, and convert this place which we just opened three weeks ago for people that share our own-- kinda-- this same mentality-- the same passion for starting new companies; changing the world; driving innovation and-

- Would you say that comes from both of you guys coming from consulting-- starting out consultants--

- [Enrique Alvarez] No, I don't think so, I'll speak for myself it's definitely not-- I've always felt, like, this passion doing something on my own. I've always wanted to do something on my own, years before I started with BCG. I think that we both felt like it was the right thing to do. But I, but-

- I mean, for me, like the thought of bringing in companies, right? And getting office or buying office space, we didn't want to just be a we-work, right?

- Right.

- Because as we've seen in the media, there's a lot of scrutiny going around our IPO right now. But, for me, what I get passionate about and what I've found-- where I really loved and thrived at BCG was, you'd go in, study a company, solve a high-level problem, and then you'd leave about six weeks later, and I loved getting to know companies and trying to figure out how you can help and how you can better them, so we wanted to create an environment where it was an incubator-slash-accelerator where we have a good community of companies that come in and work side-by-side with them and help them kind of realize their dreams and kind of push their companies forward and think about how do you get from point a to point b, right? And how can we assist-

- Yeah.

- -in making them successful.

- I think there's something magical when you get a group of entrepreneurs who are CEOs in a room together and, like, just ideas start flowing and then if somebody comes in-- like, I'm a part of a couple of groups myself, and it's like, it's great, because like you get different perspectives, you know-- different walks of-

- Right.

- [Chris] -life. Sometimes, you know, an issue that you're walking through is something that somebody's already done, you know-

- [Brian Oxley] You're not reinventing the wheel.

- -or you're about to walk through that-

- [Enrique Alvarez] Right.

- [Brian Oxley] Yeah

- -issue and you're hearing from somebody to learn not to do what they did so I, I mean, places like that-- I love that you guys are doing that, because I--

- And you've brought something up that's very important which is diversity-

- [Chris] Yep.

- -right? I mean, if you're really going to change the world and if you're really going to tackle some of these more global problems, you have to approach this as a team effort and you have to have people from all-- literally, all over the world.

- Yes.

- [Enrique Alvarez] And, uh, I've--

- Especially for CEOs. It's lonely at just-- at the top by yourself and if you have nobody speaking into your life-

- [Brian Oxley] Yeah.

- -nobody speaking into your company, it's going to be very one-sided and it's going to be very tough to-

- [Brian And Enrique] Right.

- -to run, you know, so being open and having the team around you is important.

- Yeah. Well I mean I think there's an article-- I forget what it was-- In Inc. or something around CEOs and depression, right?

- [Chris] Hmmm, yeah.

- Because your point-

- -there's-

- [Chris] Right

- -I mean there's not a whole lot of people you can turn to and this, that, and the other, and just-- you want to make sure that-

- Just be a little more open--

- -yeah, well-

- -it's easier said than done.

- Some people just don't want to share.

- [Enrique Alvarez] Right, it's just all about them.

- I think it was Entrepreneurial Magazine, but anyways--

- So if there-- alright-- so we talked ab-- covered a lot of different things. If there's one piece of advice that you would give to an entrepreneur, what would that key piece of advice be?

- I'm going to let you go first-

- Surround yourself-

- -on this one.

- -with great people, right? And people that are not like you. I mean to the point from earlier because, you know, when we came into this, Enrique and I had worked together probably for six or eight months at the-- while we were at BCG and we found out that we-- our skills complemented each other. And so surrounding yourself with good people; people that aren't like you, it's great, right? I think that Enrique's one of-- probably one of the most motivated people and also the hardest-headed-

- -people that I've known, but it's great because as an entrepreneur you have to try and try again you don't-- you know, if it would have been just me it would have been easier to say, "Alright, I give up." But then I have this, you know, other side of our partnership that is, you know, "I'm gonna pound that nail in as far as it can go "and make sure it gets done."

- [Enrique Alvarez] And I was going to go with don't give up, right? Just don't give up, to Brian's point, and I think we do have-- I think your point's very valid as well because you do need diversity and you need people that are not like you to complement yourself. And, as Brian just mentioned, he's more structured; more on the financial side of things; a little more cautious when it comes to things. And I think we have that really good partnership not only because we have different skill sets, but because we actually not always agree on things, but we trust each other and sometimes he does what he needs to do and I do what I need to do and at the end of the day we are a really good team and we have amazing people. Again, I think you're right. Having a good team, not giving up, and listening as well because you could potentially not give up, not give up, but if you're really just not doing what you need to do then you should listen to someone at some point and stop and just change try again, right?

- Yeah.

- Can we pause to hug? Real quick?

- No, I'm kidding

- That's great. Thank you, guys, I really-

- [Enrique Alvarez] Alright.

- [Chris] -appreciate it.

- Thanks, it was awesome.

- [Chris] Thank you so much.

- [Brian Oxley] Thank you very much

- Hey guys, thanks for tuning in to the episode. If you guys enjoyed it, show some love, give me a thumbs-up and subscribe. Also, make sure you check out our exclusive C Level group on Facebook.
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